Curse

**cosyfiep** · Sep 27, 2010, 04:07 PM // 16:07

azzer, german would be easy for you as well as english since all of them are from the same base (germanic) as well as the scandianvian languages as well.....
so if you already have some of the background (if you know german, then english would be easy, if you know english swedish is a breeze) etc...the whole language family is much easier to learn.....

now move into a much different language family like: greek, hebrew, arabic, finnish, or anything asian and then the problems arise!

Learning the spoken form of a language can be easier than the written ....some languages just have an easier sound (japanese grammar is a lot like german with the verb at the end all conjugated, though japanese has a tendency to leave off the subject altogether!!)...you learn to speak long before you learn to write (as infants), so learning the spoken word is usually easier.....

and learning a new alphabet (I have learned greek, hebrew as well as japanese--which is not an alphabet at all but a syllabary---) is much harder since you must learn many new 'letters' and if pattern recognition is not your thing, it will be very difficult to catch on here.

I have gotten the hiragana and katagana of japanese, but only know about 300 or so of the kanji (the chinese 'letters').....I started learning them, only to find they have LOTS of different pronunciations (one character could be ho, ha, mata, san, hon.....so when I thought I finally had it, my teacher said no, its da or something like that

) learning the meanings was easier ....

so yeah learning some languages will be easier than learning others if you already have some of the basics from your native tongue (so anyone wanting to learn latin will have a much easier time of it than the arabic peoples or even the chinese!).

oy sorry .....linguistics class

I pwnd U · Sep 27, 2010, 04:34 PM // 16:34

lol Nice post cosy. More then I ever knew about linguistics right there.

I would like to learn to speak Russian, not necessarily learn to write it. Hell sometimes I have trouble writing in English!

RedStar · Sep 27, 2010, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

I have gotten the hiragana and katagana of japanese, but only know about 300 or so of the kanji (the chinese 'letters').....I started learning them, only to find they have LOTS of different pronunciations (one character could be ho, ha, mata, san, hon.....so when I thought I finally had it, my teacher said no, its da or something like that) learning the meanings was easier ....

The very reason I gave up on both japanese and chinese. Some kanjis are supposed to be "logical" (ie : if it looks like a house, then it means something like house or building) but then the pronunciation...(although sometimes hirigana are written just above because even Japanese have trouble with them).

The more languages you learn, the easier other languages from the same branch become. The next language I'll earn will either be spanish or italian, but for now, I'll stick with learning phylogenetic trees >.<

I pwnd U · Sep 27, 2010, 06:14 PM // 18:14

They say the younger you are when you attempt to learn a language the easier it is because your brain is still developing. The brain stops producing synapses around the age of 20-25, which means you can't learn as easily because you are filling up all the synapses and new ones are not forming. Or something to that affect. Me and brain development are not on the best of terms lol

Rocky Raccoon · Sep 27, 2010, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by I pwnd U

They say the younger you are when you attempt to learn a language the easier it is because your brain is still developing. The brain stops producing synapses around the age of 20-25, which means you can't learn as easily because you are filling up all the synapses and new ones are not forming. Or something to that affect. Me and brain development are not on the best of terms lol

Do you have the Kelly Bundy syndrome? Quoting her brother Bud: "Oh, yeah. Kelly's brain can actually get full with information. And then you got to be really careful. Because each new thought after that will totally replace an old one."

RedStar · Sep 27, 2010, 06:31 PM // 18:31

If I remember correctly it's also because when you are young the brain has an easier time differentiating (hopefully it means what I think it means xD) sounds.

So I have less than one year to learn a new language...better start soon.

**cosyfiep** · Sep 27, 2010, 07:34 PM // 19:34

you have the easiest time learning languages before the age of 5...after that it is all down hill.

...bilingual kids have it the easiest since the more you learn early the easier it is (and if you learn more than one language early, you will be able to pick up others a lot easier too)

I wanted to learn russian at one time too (seeing as my ancestors lived in part of what had been russia and is not anylonger again---

--dang wars et al..)

their alphabet is screwy, but the verbal doesnt sound too hard (this coming from someone who has studied 3 languages to an extent and another 3 casually).....

and yeah a lot of the kanji are simple for example: 川 is river...you can see the water moving right??? and 山 is mountain ...you see the peak?? (river is gawa and mountain is yama so if want to learn a popular japanese family name you now have--yamagawa or from the mountain river

) and my favorite is 口 or guichi or mouth ...so yamaguichi 山口 is the mouth of the mountain (and a lot quicker to write), and kawa --(the g changes to k)-- kawaguchi is the mouth of the river!!!----see how easy it is???
these are also found in chinese (as my acupuncturist tells me, but yes the have different pronunciations

...he says he can read a japanese newspaper, but cant understand them when they talk).

oops more language talk, dang its a subject I know and am studying (you are egging me on!)

Junato · Sep 27, 2010, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quick question, does their have to be language in order to have thought or is it the other way around?

azzer20 · Sep 27, 2010, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Cosy, i was in Greece for 2 weeks, after 1 week i could talk quite well with the locals in Greek.. Language is not hard really, not at all.

And again, Danish is in top 3 of languages hardest to learn, /national pride hehe.

Neither Junato, a thought does not need words at all, think about dreams/nightmares. Sa

RedStar · Sep 27, 2010, 10:00 PM // 22:00

The talking part will always be easier than the writing and reading part.
Now because chinese (and the languages that use chinese symbols) uses symbols instead of letters it can be harder to those that are not used to that logic.

And to think you need to have "background". You can only imagine what you heard, saw, read. Read somewhere that that is why those that suffer from amnesia have a hard time with imagining their future because they can't really recall their past. So in the end I think you need to have thoughts to be able to think (but if you want more developed answers, you can always try to find a philosophy teacher xD).

A bit off the language discussion : I LOVE french television ! It's really one of the things that I prefer compared to the US. There's a show where the news are completely serious and then for 15 minutes it's completely random funny things. And since it's France and it's on one of the major channel, there's close to no censorship so they can pretty much laugh at everything xD.
I just hate the censorship in the US...

I pwnd U · Sep 27, 2010, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky Raccoon

Do you have the Kelly Bundy syndrome? Quoting her brother Bud: "Oh, yeah. Kelly's brain can actually get full with information. And then you got to be really careful. Because each new thought after that will totally replace an old one."

lol Not quite that severe, but it does cause problems. It isn't going to stop you from remembering stuff or forgetting stuff that you just remembered. It's more that if you don't use certain synapses, then you lose them. Your brain becomes specialized but then also becomes less flexible and less amenable to change. So you CAN still learn but it may not be as easy especially IF it goes against something you previously were taught.

**cosyfiep** · Sep 27, 2010, 11:41 PM // 23:41

from wikipeadia

Quote:

The Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the US Department of State has compiled approximate learning expectations for a number of languages. Of the 63 languages analyzed, the five most difficult languages to reach proficiency in speaking and proficiency in reading (for native English speakers who already know other languages), requiring 88 weeks, are "Arabic, Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean". The Foreign Service Institute considers Japanese to be the most difficult of this group

though another article suggests Hungarian with it 35 cases as in the top most difficult,

Azzer, I believe that you may just have a knack for languages (especially since you live in a country that teaches other languages in grade school...unlike the usa which waits until high school if then).....

as I mentioned earlier, it really depends on your native tongue and how far away from that branch on the language tree the language you are trying to learn is (greek is still close to the european branch since there were quite a lot of exchanges of stuff back when--- which has influenced which way the language has gone--ancient greek is a bit more difficult kinda like an american learning old english).
Try Swahili

language is a form of communication, communication existed before language and does in many of the animals species.....so even if you are not able to speak or have lost the ability you will still (usually) be able to communicate (unless you are vegetative )....

I pwnd U · Sep 28, 2010, 01:38 AM // 01:38

It is amazing to think that our language might have come from simple grunts and drawings on a wall. To think how far it has come is amazing.

scythefromunder · Sep 28, 2010, 05:01 AM // 05:01

On a side note, it was like 113 degrees here today... :[ lol

azzer20 · Sep 28, 2010, 06:03 AM // 06:03

i don't find any languages to be hard, maybe because, as you said, i have a knack for it.. I only had english for 2 years in school, and that's it, + 2nd year i could more than my english teacher. German grammar i had problems with, but i always have problems with grammar, even danish, It can be so confusing at times.

What i love about danish/norwegian is Æ, Ø, and Å. love those letters.

It's sunny here, with wind, around 15 Celsius.

Hmm, why is it england/america insist on using that retarded measurement instead of the metric system, which is so so easy.

feet, Inches, yards and so on, and weather you use Fahrenheit, all others use Celsius, the really nerdy uses Kelvin though.

I can measure in both too, MEtric system is just far far far superior mathematically and easier to use.

**cosyfiep** · Sep 28, 2010, 06:21 AM // 06:21

welll.....the metric system...they TRIED to force it down our throats on many occasions (just ask anyone who went thru the public school system and you will see that sometime they tried ...in my case it was 6th grade or about 1978)....they FAILED....
Fahrenheit has more degrees between boiling and freezing thus is more exact .....feet/inches/pounds/miles.....all of that we got from the english---and as americans who believe we are always right (and dammn anyone to try and tell us otherwise

) it is a very very hard sell to try and change us from that system.
(yeah I learned metric a bit better while I lived in japan---temps and my height and weight at least

....never caught on to the precipitation reports though---mm????)

metric is base 10 so yeah, its easier to calculate, its not a precise in some instances as ours though.

and yes, we heard that LA broke the heat record ...113 geeesh....its in the upper 60's here--nice and cool, no a/c--open the doors, etc.

I pwnd U · Sep 28, 2010, 01:38 PM // 13:38

So many of my classes use the metric system instead of the US units, which we were taught to use in high school. I'd just be happier if we went to metric since that is what everyone else uses and is what is scientifically accepted. I hate having to remember to use metric units in one class and US units in the other. >< Gah.

113 degrees? Damn scythe. It was 68 here yesterday... nice and cool.

RedStar · Sep 28, 2010, 05:03 PM // 17:03

1m = 10 dm
1 ft = 12 in... could it be more annoying ? xD

I love the metric system. I like all the units that are part of the International System of Units (except kelvin) since it's what we are taught since elementary school.
I learned the conversion for ft, yd, and that's it. Fahrenheit I get an approximative idea (ie : 113 is around 40 C) but for oz. and things like that...

Got a cold...it's so annoying.

I pwnd U · Sep 28, 2010, 05:38 PM // 17:38

I prefer the metric system because it is based on 10's but I still have an issue of uses inches and feet etc instead of metrics because that is what I was taught lol

**cosyfiep** · Sep 28, 2010, 05:45 PM // 17:45

(113 is waay more than 40---since 41 is about 105...so like 43? thats middle east type temps yuk).

yeah our system is screwy...feet yards, miles....inches, ounces and pounds (glad we dont really use bushels and pecks much anymore)....cups, teaspoons....quarts, gallons....yep we use an archaic measuring system for sure, but you might as well give up trying to get us to stop---it aint happenin anytime soon!

woke up with a sore throat, fever and well, geez when you wake up arent you supposed to feel like, refreshed??, I feel like I never slept!
soo this sick mouse is going to go back to bed....and hope that after a nap I might actually feel like I did some of that sleeping thing I read so much about.